Comments for Rich Sharples' Blog http://blog.softwhere.org Musings on the world of software from the sharp end of the long tail Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:45:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Java is finally Free and Open by Comparison of the Java and .NET platforms « sitefortechies http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/196/comment-page-2#comment-6864 Comparison of the Java and .NET platforms « sitefortechies Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:45:07 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/?p=196#comment-6864 [...] ^ Sharples, Rich (2008-06-19). “Java is finally Free and Open”. [...] [...] ^ Sharples, Rich (2008-06-19). “Java is finally Free and Open”. [...]

]]> Comment on With all the enthusiasm of cleaning up a dog turd … by Ben http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1081/comment-page-1#comment-6791 Ben Sat, 03 Sep 2011 18:38:04 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1081#comment-6791 The culture of "doing what we have to do to make it work, without complaining" is one approach. Creating a flexible new deployment model like Heroku's is another. If Red Hat's OpenShift is a full-stop obvious better alternative to you, then it is possible that you might not be Heroku's target market. The culture of “doing what we have to do to make it work, without complaining” is one approach. Creating a flexible new deployment model like Heroku’s is another.

If Red Hat’s OpenShift is a full-stop obvious better alternative to you, then it is possible that you might not be Heroku’s target market.

]]> Comment on With all the enthusiasm of cleaning up a dog turd … by mark http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1081/comment-page-1#comment-6790 mark Sat, 03 Sep 2011 14:50:40 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1081#comment-6790 Ok but ... Java sucks. Sorry to be so blunt. :) I rather spend my time writing Ruby or Python code, than bother with Java as a language. I give you that though, the ecosystem around Java is quite impressive. I'd just wish Ruby or Python could pull that off too ... much much better language than Java these are for sure. Ok but …

Java sucks.

Sorry to be so blunt. :)

I rather spend my time writing Ruby or Python code, than bother with Java as a language.

I give you that though, the ecosystem around Java is quite impressive. I’d just wish Ruby or Python could pull that off too … much much better language than Java these are for sure.

]]> Comment on Rethinking Enterprise Java by simplicity http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078/comment-page-1#comment-6787 simplicity Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:49:33 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078#comment-6787 The criteria are more than just startup time. Startup time, memory footprint, redeployability, and ease of setup are all important. I really like Virgo RT for redeployability, you code and refresh all day. Jetty seems great for a fast runtime. But, developers want even more. It's about a fast refresh cycle. Hence the play framework. It's about being diligent to sip memory. That's why tools like JRebel even exist. So at the end of the day, catching tomcat in a couple areas is still not enough. The criteria are more than just startup time. Startup time, memory footprint, redeployability, and ease of setup are all important.

I really like Virgo RT for redeployability, you code and refresh all day. Jetty seems great for a fast runtime.

But, developers want even more. It’s about a fast refresh cycle. Hence the play framework. It’s about being diligent to sip memory.

That’s why tools like JRebel even exist. So at the end of the day, catching tomcat in a couple areas is still not enough.

]]> Comment on Rethinking Enterprise Java by sharps http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078/comment-page-1#comment-6786 sharps Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:26:04 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078#comment-6786 Hildeberto, I am a complete JBoss fanboi - I Manage JBoss products at Red Hat :) Here are some statistics on the App Server market : Latest Eclipse Survey - Glassfish has 3% - same as "Don't know". This is a developer survey where GF is strong. In production its much less prevalent. http://www.eclipse.org/org/community_survey/Eclipse_Survey_2011_Report.pdf Another survey / popularity contest : http://storage.pardot.com/1772/18317/Survey_Results.pdf Glassfish is included in other in this report. I guess. Also look at any Gartner EAS Magic Quadrant ior App Server market share report in the last 10 years - iPlanet, Sun AS, Glassfish have never made the leaders quadrant. Hildeberto, I am a complete JBoss fanboi – I Manage JBoss products at Red Hat :)

Here are some statistics on the App Server market :

Latest Eclipse Survey – Glassfish has 3% – same as “Don’t know”. This is a developer survey where GF is strong. In production its much less prevalent.
http://www.eclipse.org/org/community_survey/Eclipse_Survey_2011_Report.pdf

Another survey / popularity contest :

http://storage.pardot.com/1772/18317/Survey_Results.pdf

Glassfish is included in other in this report. I guess.

Also look at any Gartner EAS Magic Quadrant ior App Server market share report in the last 10 years – iPlanet, Sun AS, Glassfish have never made the leaders quadrant.

]]> Comment on Rethinking Enterprise Java by Grzegorz Grzybek http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078/comment-page-1#comment-6785 Grzegorz Grzybek Tue, 30 Aug 2011 05:45:45 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078#comment-6785 @Henk Thanks for reply. Of course I don't put JDK into WEB-INF/lib :) What I meant was that JavaEE APIs implementations are more maintanable when you have them "close to you". E.g. JAX-WS implementation should be a part of your App, not the application server. When such libs as: JAXB, CXF, Hibernate are provided by application server, you can't really choose particular version - especially when there are many applications run on this server. and @Juan I agree - it's usually better to have one application per application server - and when I went that way several years ago, I've discovered embedded jetty - powerful server which does what app server should be doing well - translate HTTP requests into javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequests. And nothing more! If I want JMS, JPA, WebServices - I can add them to my application and I can be sure that the implementations are the same whether run in production or in Jenkins. regards Grzegorz Grzybek @Henk
Thanks for reply. Of course I don’t put JDK into WEB-INF/lib :) What I meant was that JavaEE APIs implementations are more maintanable when you have them “close to you”. E.g. JAX-WS implementation should be a part of your App, not the application server. When such libs as: JAXB, CXF, Hibernate are provided by application server, you can’t really choose particular version – especially when there are many applications run on this server.

and @Juan
I agree – it’s usually better to have one application per application server – and when I went that way several years ago, I’ve discovered embedded jetty – powerful server which does what app server should be doing well – translate HTTP requests into javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequests. And nothing more! If I want JMS, JPA, WebServices – I can add them to my application and I can be sure that the implementations are the same whether run in production or in Jenkins.
regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

]]> Comment on Rethinking Enterprise Java by Hildeberto http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078/comment-page-1#comment-6784 Hildeberto Tue, 30 Aug 2011 05:07:46 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078#comment-6784 Statistics to prove your sentence about Glassfish not representing a mainstream, please. Don't say just to say, otherwise we can classify you as a JBoss fanboy too :P Ps: Show growing figures. ;-) Statistics to prove your sentence about Glassfish not representing a mainstream, please. Don’t say just to say, otherwise we can classify you as a JBoss fanboy too :P

Ps: Show growing figures. ;-)

]]> Comment on Rethinking Enterprise Java by Juan Cruz Nores http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078/comment-page-1#comment-6782 Juan Cruz Nores Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:25:13 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078#comment-6782 One thing that I think is wrong with Java EE, is the tendency to have several applications in the same VM with a huge heap to deal with. I always thought that separating applications into isolated processes would work a lot better. It's a bit trickier from an IPC point of view, but provides a lot more control. Currently you can do it manually with all app servers, but it is usually a pain to setup. Having separate processes would allow finer grained control over access and memory (doing GC on several small heaps is better than doing it on a large one), and restarting an app is a lot easier. The amount of black magic that goes into proper classloading is staggering. You could also even attach a debugger to an app without affecting others. One thing that I think is wrong with Java EE, is the tendency to have several applications in the same VM with a huge heap to deal with. I always thought that separating applications into isolated processes would work a lot better. It’s a bit trickier from an IPC point of view, but provides a lot more control. Currently you can do it manually with all app servers, but it is usually a pain to setup.

Having separate processes would allow finer grained control over access and memory (doing GC on several small heaps is better than doing it on a large one), and restarting an app is a lot easier. The amount of black magic that goes into proper classloading is staggering.

You could also even attach a debugger to an app without affecting others.

]]> Comment on Not all free advice is good advice by Jeff http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1077/comment-page-1#comment-6781 Jeff Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:14:05 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1077#comment-6781 Hmmmm... guess the application server companies have not been paying Forrester enough money for reports that highlight them in the best light possible. Nonetheless, the author is completely correct, use the correct technology stack for the job. Hmmmm… guess the application server companies have not been paying Forrester enough money for reports that highlight them in the best light possible.

Nonetheless, the author is completely correct, use the correct technology stack for the job.

]]> Comment on Rethinking Enterprise Java by Henk http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078/comment-page-1#comment-6780 Henk Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:36:44 +0000 http://blog.softwhere.org/archives/1078#comment-6780 Grzegorz, I don't really agree. There's no such thing as "sometimes closed implementations". In open source implementations of Java EE (Resin, GlassFish, JBoss AS, TomEE, Geronimo), everything is open source. It's not sometimes open and sometimes closed. If you only trust what's in WEB-INF/lib, do you also put the JDK and your OS there? Grzegorz, I don’t really agree. There’s no such thing as “sometimes closed implementations”. In open source implementations of Java EE (Resin, GlassFish, JBoss AS, TomEE, Geronimo), everything is open source. It’s not sometimes open and sometimes closed.

If you only trust what’s in WEB-INF/lib, do you also put the JDK and your OS there?

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